Heads Up is an interview series by Phenom Poker’s Michael Dunlap, where he sits down with a new guest each week, talking everything poker.
For our third edition of Heads Up, we got to chat with none other than Subiime, Joseph Cheong. He's No. 4 on the All-Time Money List in Nevada (Hendon Mob) with just under $20 million in live earnings, fresh off a third-place finish in the 2025 PGT Kickoff in Las Vegas, Nevada. Let's get into it.
Michael Dunlap: You have a background in psychology and mathematics. Is there any combination that would better serve a poker player?
Joseph Cheong: On the surface, it sounds like it'd be the perfect combination, especially because my math degree was specialized in statistics and probability, but honestly, it's like psychology in college, you just learn about mental disorders like schizophrenia and stuff like that. Maybe useful for live poker to some degree, but not really. In the math, it's like once you pass the basic level of poker, you know all the basic odds by heart, so it's not really a big deal. And it's more game theory oriented these days. Or if you play live poker, it's more just based on people's tendencies, I guess. It's like internal math maybe.
Michael Dunlap: There's plenty of poker players that you could diagnose, so I think the psychology aspect could come into play. Just not to make you more your money.
Michael Dunlap: I've spent maybe an uncomfortable amount of time trolling your X feed lately. It seems like everyone has some kind of opinion on your play, and you're not afraid to respond. Why does it seem like they come after you?
Joseph Cheong: I think I just have a reputation for being really loose and gambly, which probably isn't true these days, but someone makes a bad play and they tag me and they're like, 'you would have called here' or something like that.
Michael Dunlap: That's actually a pretty good image to have, especially if you're not super loose. But yeah, one of the ones that sticks out to me was of course the non-story about you slow rolling, which you're allowed to needle your buddies. What's the big deal, right?
Joseph Cheong: Yeah, exactly.
Michael Dunlap: If you're not needling your friends, poker isn't as fun.
Joseph Cheong: There used to be a lot more needling I think 10 years ago. Everyone's a lot more serious these days. Even my buddy who I slow-rolled was pretty upset for a while. I mean maybe because it was a 50k buy-in and it was for chip lead. But looking back on it now he enjoys it. Kind of made a moment out of something that would have been just forgotten.
Michael Dunlap: So you talked about online play and how, you don't get to see the players. You just kind of have to go off of whether you're using a HUD or you're just internalizing their tendencies. Is there a way to take advantage of any kind of psychology playing online?
Joseph Cheong: I'd say most people when they play at home online the whole benefit of it is you're at home you get to watch TV on the side and do stuff. You're not paying attention, so that's whyI think maybe timing tells are probably the most important, or bet sizing. But this kind of stuff isn't very useful unless you're playing with a lot of recs even online because everyone's good these days and they're supposed to be all balanced and G2 and all that.
Michael Dunlap: What's it like being a professional these days, with all of the tools and knowledge available?
Joseph Cheong: Everyone still aspires to beat the best and make some money online. It's just gotten harder these days, mainly because of rake, probably. A lot of tournaments have bad structures online, the rake is high, there's too many pros and it's not as accessible to players in American. So, we've lost a big player pool and I think that's probably the biggest contributor to how tough it is.
Michael Dunlap: You said bad structures. Are you talking just moving too quickly? Not enough chips?
Joseph Cheong: Exactly. Yeah, just like fast structures, not enough chips. I mean, it doesn't matter how good you are when the average stack's 10-20 big blinds. It's just the cards you're dealt.
Michael Dunlap: What about non-poker? I was looking through and I saw some posts on food. Everybody eats of course, you've got a lot of travel, but what else do you do?
Joseph Cheong: To be honest, I've been playing so much poker for the past decade that during my off times I like to do nothing. Just vegetate at home and just like that's my vacation. I would like to get back into something. I used to play a lot of tennis growing up, so would love to play some tennis, but I had a little pickle ball phase also because it was so popular in Vegas, but the weather here is just like it can be so windy and too hot.
Michael Dunlap: First of the five questions, what's your favorite poker variant?
Joseph Cheong: My favorite poker variant for tournaments is just No Limit. I mean it's what everyone plays. Biggest prize pools. In terms of fun, I think 2-7 Single Draw is probably the most fun just because I don't play it very often. I enjoy PLO a lot, especially in cash games, but tournament format PLO's -- it's gotten better with the big blind ante these days -- but it doesn't really make the best format for tournaments.
Michael Dunlap: You like four card or do you like the five or six card?
Joseph Cheong: Five. Six becomes a little too much for me.
Michael Dunlap: The difference in value between each hand is so slim in six card. It's just like bingo.
Joseph Cheong: Yeah, I mean, five is already kind of bingo, especially I mean, I never played a tournament with five cards, but cash games with five cards are just crazy action. You're just always flipping basically if you're getting in. So, four cards probably a little better for me, but in terms of I'm playing for fun, five card definitely.
Michael Dunlap: Next question, where is your favorite place to play poker?
Joseph Cheong: My favorite place to play poker in terms of casino, probably Wynn. Just a good atmosphere. The Wynn is also a good place to play because the dealers are good. The casino just feels nice, tournaments are very good, well run, big prize pools. Poker go for high rollers because usually -- this probably isn't a good thing -- but it's usually a lot of my friends. So when you play a lot just everyone's just chatting and having fun all day.
Michael Dunlap: What is your most memorable poker moment?
Joseph Cheong: My most memorable I mean I guess this is the default answer from my main event run. Everyone just knows me for the two hands from the main event. The one where a guy bad beat me and ran around screaming and then the one where I six bet a seven off and a bunch of money. It feels like a lifetime ago.
Michael Dunlap: All right. My favorite question is, who is on your Mount Rushmore of poker players? You get to pick four players.
Joseph Cheong: It's tough I've just played for so long there's so many players I know maybe I'll start with Darren Elias because he's one of my oldest his friends in poker. I met him 15 years ago and he's just always crushed and now he's one of the top players in the world, always consistent. recently, Ren Lin, very fun guy, always chatting, makes the table brighter, always gambling, very tough to play with, also very lucky. Tough combo. Steven Song's probably same as Ren basically, but he's a younger Korean-American player just doing really well. Also extremely lucky, very happy go-lucky guy, which is nice. Fourth, I don't know. I play strictly in Asia these days. So I've lost track of all these new European players and American players.
Michael Dunlap: No Phil Ivey?
Joseph Cheong: Yeah, the old guys. I mean they were already old when I started playing and now they're forgotten old. I don't know. I've always liked Negreanu, Hellmuth and Ivey. I can't pick one though. Maybe like a trio of them on one face.
Michael Dunlap: Last question, what is your biggest poker pet peeve?
Joseph Cheong: Usually just slow players just like stalling. I mean, when pros do it, they do it in the right right spots. These days it's not that bad. The high rollers, everyone's pretty fast except on bubbles or stuff like that. It's not really a big deal anymore. It used to be really bad for a while. But then I'll go to mid-stakes and people know the pros do this, but they don't know why or when. So, you'll get a lot of tanking and stalling in spots like it makes no sense leaving a chip behind. They don't know why they're doing it. They're just copying it. So, it just ends up wasting a lot of time for everyone. Also, this has nothing to do with it, but this happens a lot, especially in World Series, I'll raise and then some guy who has been snap folding suddenly takes his full 30 seconds. I mean I know you're three betting so why waste 30 seconds? That's my biggest pet peeve.
Note: Commentary has been edited for clarity. Follow Michael Dunlap (@DunlapSports) and Joseph Cheong (@subiime) on X.